FOLLOW UP SUCCESS: FERMENTING FRESH PRESSED VEGETABLE JUICE

[Denise]

This is a follow up to my previous topic "Fermenting Fresh Pressed Vegetable Juice" and applying the information I learned from Tim Hall.

I realized that keeping the oxygen to a minimum was most important both for molds and yeasts. I made some cabbage circles the diameter of the mason jar lid, and wedged them in the small spaces between the top of the veggie juice and the lid (juice filled to outside rim), so as the scum from the veggie fiber rose to the top, there would be less chance for mold to grow on it. These leaves were not submerged under the juice; they were wedged above it. I kept the quart jars closed for 4 days, covered with a towel (resisting any temptation to peek), and kept the temperature as close to 70 degrees as possible.

After the four days there was about 1/2 inch of scum under the cabbage leaves, with no mold. I skimmed the scum with a fine mesh tea ball strainer.

Beautifully tart fermented veggie juice!

Thank you very much for helping me.

Denise

New 1/1/12: I have become more confident in fermenting my fresh pressed veggie juice. I now fill the mason jar to the outside rim and omit the piece of cabbage. There is not much oxygen space there. Some of the fiber still rises to the top and becomes discolored. I skim that off--only about 1/8 of an inch. Possibly the cooler weather is helping this. So much easier. I also let it ferment 5 days!

[Allison]

Hi Denise,

I am new to all this fermenting. Thank you for sharing this! I hope you get well and surely you will with all the good things you are doing for your body.

[MDee]

I've been experimenting with the same thing...using veggie or fruit with some sugar in it. However I just leave the juice in an open mason jar for weeks or months. The juice is pretty sour...to sour I think but after it all really ferments most of the contents (all under liquid) have this gelatinous mass (like small curd cottage cheese...in fact the process really reminds me of making raw cheese from scratch) Anyway I use a cheese cloth to get the sour liquid out for the most part and I quite like the taste and texture. I'm going to do more and see about any increased health benefits.

The mass isn't like the mother of raw vinegar its is quite different.

It is cool to read your experience and results....keep up the experimenting!

[Denise]

Hi MDee,

It sounds like what you are experiencing on the top isn't what I'm experiencing. Mine is definitely from the veggie fibers in the bottom rising to the top. I'm assuming that they oxidize when they hit the air space at the top, since the color is darker. The cabbage leaf really helps.

And, yes, I keep experimenting! Now I'm using a larger cabbage leaf to wedge in the jar so there is very little air space. Works lots better.
(And now, 1/1/12, no cabbage leaf and no mold! See post.)

I'd be interested in what Tim Hall would say about your "juice". From the limited knowledge I have I would think that it would be a good breeding ground for yeast (with the sugar and the air). I cannot have yeast at all, since I have severe dysbiosis. I need the lactic acid bacteria instead. I feel quite confident that my juice is full of lactic acid bacteria. I think that yours is "wild" fermentation, while mine is "controlled".

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Tim Hall]

Denise I don't know that I have much to add to this. But yes, there's almost certainly some yeast in MDee's ferments. Unless you're strictly avoiding yeast (as you seem to be) I personally don't see anything wrong with breeding some yeast. Because wild ferments go through successive phases of microflora, MDee may actually be ending up with a bacteria-dominated ferment that ultimately inhibits yeast growth.

[Denise]

Yes, it seems that I read that yeast is in keifer and vinegar; and there are some very beneficial yeasts also.

Fermentation is truly fascinating if a yeast ferment can change into a bacteria dominate product.

This is an interesting fermentation observation: I've been making my fermented fresh pressed veggie juice with mostly cabbage--purple and some green (also kohlrabi bulbs and greens, a few carrots, and some cukes). Before I ferment it, the color is a very deep purple (like the color of type here, almost black. When it is done fermenting, the color is red, like a beet (no beets in the juice!).

[MDee]

I know that yeast are part of mine, but they don't last long, other microbes take over for sure after a few days cause the yeast run out of sugar. That's interesting that you avoid yeast because you have disbyosis. I have very severe IBS/Crohn's Disease and have had very severe Candidiasis as well...but good fat got rid of it faster than anything I have ever tried. I also eat sourdough bread everyday that I make myself and eat fresh and it has helped tremendously. I don't know your current situation but if have a thrush or candida I would highly recommend you try virgin coconut oil...or I eat raw beef kidney fat...but that is a little much for most people. Personal I wouldn't be alive without raw and fermented foods...they literally saved my life. Thanks for actively sharing your experiments.

I'll let you all know how my experiment with the thoroughly fermented juice goes. I have come orange/grape fruit juice fermenting right now and also have some raw potato juice I'm going to see what happens with. Its in a warm place so fermentation should have a head start but it may still take a couple of weeks...I'll keep a close eye on it.

[Denise]

Hi MDee,

I had pathogenic parasites damage my intestines, and the damage affected other organs, especially my liver. I am fat intolerant, except for medium chain triglyceride oil, also called MCT oil, the fat from yogurt made from raw goat milk, and my latest addition of nut milk. I get sick even with bone gelatin broth unless the fat is fully skimmed off. I can't digest other proteins nor starches. I am severely malnourished. "Secure" is keeping me alive, along with lactic acid fermented foods. In time, trusting the body's ablility to heal itself when it gets the proper nutrients, the intestines and liver will heal.

There are beneficial yeasts, sacchromyces boullardi for example, and yeasts in keifer and raw apple cider vinegar. However, these are too potent for me because I have so much dysbiosis. My liver can't handle the many toxins from the die off of unfriendly microorganisms, and I get very sick.

The fat probably works because during fat digestion your liver secretes bile into your small intestine and lubricates your intestinal walls. Bile also regulates the quantity of your friendly bacteria, and stimulates peristalsis. It is my understanding that the MCT oil doesn't help much with bile flow.

Oddly, the intestines need to be well populated with friendly bacteria for the bile to flow. Apparently my liver is producing "toxic" bile, which is harmful to the beneficial bacteria.

This information was good to remember. Because of your post, I decided that my next food addition will be fermented cod liver oil.

Thanks for your help.

[MDee]

Well good luck with everything, my diet is very limited as well but it seems in different ways. As far as fat goes I can't handle any fat that is cooked, it has to be raw. And it's interesting you can't handle protein, because I am the same, any more than a very small amount makes me sick...yet oddly on a very small amount I have been gaining healthy weight. I think we way over eat protein on a SAD.

Well keep testing out and eating fermented foods, I'm certain you will fully recover.

[Denise]

Hi MDee,

Oddly, I haven't eaten an SAD diet in 35 years!

I have a question about your ferment. From a nutritional standpoint, I don't understand why you would use sugar (sucrose) in a veggie juice ferment. Using beet or carrot juice instead would give the yeast or bacteria a natural form of sugar found in veggies and fruits (glucose or fructose) to feed upon. I believe you would have a healthier product.

I quit eating sugar 35 years ago when I read how unhealthy it was/is.