YOGURT FERMENTATION HISTORY QUESTIONS

[Denise]

As I carefully make my yogurt with a starter containing L-casei, L-bulgaricus, and S. Thermophillus, I begin to wonder how yogurt was made 2000 or more years ago. This is a lost culture (pun intended).

How did yogurt fermentation begin?

How did the poeple know what to use for a culture?

Where would they have found the culture to use the first time?

Did it ever become contaminated, and if so, how did they get a fresh starter?

I recall that L-bulgaricus is named after the people in Bulgaria, however, did they know that their culture was different from other people's?

Is there a good book that gives this information?

Thank you so much for your help.

(The following 3 posts are sidetracked from topic.)
Tim Hall has an excellent reply on the 4th post.

[Allison]

Hi Denise,

I'm sorry I don't know the answer to your questions but I love that you asked about this. I've been curious about how it all started too.
I've only recently learned about fermenting dairy so all this time I never knew they had a way of preserving it. I better stop typing bc I always make myself out to be an idiot when I do.

I can't believe you typed out the word Streoticiccys Thermophilus because I had not heard of that until yesterday when I was reading about it. Maybe this is outdated information and I don't want to scare you but I what I read was that they recommended choosing cultured dairy products that do not contain that bacterial strain.
They were saying studies have shown that people who suffer from autoimmune diseases such as rheumatiod arthritis run the risk of aggravation the symptoms of their disease if they consume more than two cups of yogurt that contains S. thermaphilus. And that S. thermophilus can cause a shift in immune function know as a Th2-dominated immune system. People with Th2mediated immune systems have higher incidences of allergies and other illnesses. People suffering from digestive problems usually have imbalanced or weak immune systems.
They said, for this reson, avoiding products that may contribute to immune system dysfunction is wise if you have an intestinal disease.
I'm sorry to be the downer but I did want to pass that info on to you in case it could be helpful.

[Denise]

Hi again Allison! I feel like you are my "Fermentation Friend"!

What a coinsidence, and how thoughtful of you to type all of that for me.

I have also read the info that you typed, and had to really think about using the S. Thermophillus.

My intestines have been damaged by pathogenic parasites (which have been cleared, but the damage was serious). I SUFFER from severe malabsorption and muscle wasting, though I eat a highly nutritious diet with lots of fermented foods. I finally read about the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and the lactose free yogurt (see my post). The yogurt starter that contains the L-casei that I need to break down the casein has the S. Thermophillus in it.

I read this about S. Thermophillus (from GI ProHealth Website):

"STREPTOCCUS THERMOPHILUS – This yogurt strain possess remarkable ability to produce the enzyme lactase (B-galactosidase activity) to digest the milk sugar lactose, as well as supports immune function/modulation, inhibits pathogenic organism by producing lactic and acetic acids effective against pathogenic bacteria, as well as has the documented ability to synthesize folate and B-12.

EFFECTIVE STRAINS: Streptococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus bulgaricus are well recognized to work together and transform milk into tasty yogurt containing high levels of live lactic acid bacteria. L. casei offers an excellent lactic acid producing strain that provides additional health promoting attributes in the formula."

I read this in Klaire Labs catlog:
"S. Thermophilus: A transient species with a long history of use as a starter culture for yogurt and cheese...." with no mention of any precautions for harm.

I've been ill a long time and have discovered that on every subject, there are many opinions and thoughts. I've learned to weigh the risks. Using the S. Thermophilus was one of those risks. S. Thermophilus has been around a long time. I feel a lot of security in that. I need the lactose free yogurt and the L-casei to heal my intestines and better absorb nutrients. If this doesn't happen, I will die. Until there is more evidence against S. Thermophilus, I will continue to use it.

Thanks again for helping me.

(For more information on S. Thermophilus, see the post HEALTH BENEFITS OF LACTOSE FREE YOGURT)

[Allison]

"If this doesn't happen, I will die."

Denise! Hugs! I am so sorry that you are battling such an illness.
I pray your body continues to heal and that you have wisdom and strength to keep taking these steps in the right direction towards healing. What you said is so true about the conflicting reports on all things health, nurtition, and healing. It can get to be mind boggling to wade thru all the material in searching for the right path to take.
I'm dealing with lyme disease so I get what you are talking about in weighing the benefits vs. the questionable study results.
Plus all of our bodies are different.
I've been confused about milk. For years I didn't drink it because I had read that dairy was bad. And I was trying but failing miserably to be a 100% raw foodist. I had read little snipets here and there on blogs or other sites on the internet about the Weston A Price Foundation and Sally Fallon's book, Nourishing Traditions. I was so entrenched in my thinking that I HAD to be a raw foodist or I wouldn't be healthy and that I could not consume milk at all and meat was bad.
It wasn't until reading about colostrum and how healthy it is that I started to break free from that mindset.
And it was hard to even bring myself to drink milk. But then I just read of how someone is feeling so good on the Paleo diet. And that diet says not to have dairy. I'm thinking, which one is right now?
I don't trust my own abilities to think (with my ADD ;)), so I'm always tossing back and forth with it.
I was wondering if the yogurt is something you need to have in order to heal your intestines and the damage that was done by the parasites. I'll have to google Specific Carbohydrate Diet.
I'm sure you were very relieved to have found that your body is free and clear of those nasty bugs. I will be so glad to get rid of lyme!
Yeah, I'm your fermentation friend. Although I haven't drank the kefir I've made in a month! I'm scared to after the reaction I had. It felt like a whole bunch of agitated angry bugs were running rampant when I drank that stuff. This was milk kefir. I still haven't started any water kefir drinks. I'm overwhelmed with life and I'm doing good just to come here every few days and read posts.
But I'd love to keep in touch and hear about your healing journey.
I'm glad you are on the upswing, keep on going. :) I can tell you are determined and have a perseverance that is going to be rewarded.

[Tim Hall]

How did yogurt fermentation begin? How did the poeple know what to use for a culture? Where would they have found the culture to use the first time? Did it ever become contaminated, and if so, how did they get a fresh starter?

Denise, I'm not sure anyone knows all this for sure, and I certainly don't. But I suspect, as with most things, it was partly accidental discovery, part luck, and maybe part providence.

Before the advent of ceramics and vessel making, it was common to carry fluids in natural "vessels," such as hollow gourds, animal skins and even animal stomachs. Some animal stomachs would still be imbibed with rennet, causing milk stored in it to curdle. This is probably how the first cheese was "accidentally" made.

Raw milk carries its own cultures. These cultures vary from place to place, animal to animal. Once it was discovered that milk from a particular place naturally turned into what we now call yogurt or kefir, that culture was preserved. Because the aforementioned vessels (and un-glazed pottery) were porous, they would have remained inoculated with these cultures. Each subsequent batch of milk (or fruit juice or honey-water, etc.) poured into the vessel would begin to ferment in whatever fashion the culture provided.

"And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined."