Q's about first time cider making

[Larissa]

Hi all,

A labor of love in restoring my family's old cider press, recently rewarded me with three gallons of fresh, unfiltered, unpasteurized apple cider.

I've made fruit wine before, but never cider. I started two batches six days ago. One was with a recipe (campden tablet, acid blend, pectic enzyme, tannin, sugar and of course, wine yeast). The other I decided to just see what goes....and it looks like I might be successful?!

I started the "au naturale" batch (about two gallons) in a sterilized three gallon pickle jar with an airlock in the lid. I added nothing to the fresh cider. I put the jar in an area of the kitchen that ranges between 65 and 75 degrees. After a few days I noticed a few tiny bubbles. After four days a bubbly cap of brown foam started to build up. Prior to the foam forming, I had been stirring the cider gently once a day. However, today I decided to remove the foam first and then stir. More foam came back within a day. I take this as a good sign. I have tasted it. It's good. Sweet with a light carbonation. So, so far so good but now I have some questions about where to go from here.

#1 Should I rack the batch into a smaller carboy at some point and leave the must behind? If "yes", at what point?

#2 I have a hydrometer and I took a reading of the recipe batch after adding sugar. It was 14% PA. The cider was sweet to begin with. What is the range of PA typical for hard cider that hasn't had added sugar?

#3 This is related to question #2. If my guess is right in that the cider is probably going to only produce a small percentage of alcohol, I'm thinking that it probably won't keep. Should it be refrigerated or drunk right away once it's done fermenting?

#4 Can you drink the cider before it is done fermenting?

Thanks in advance for any comments and advice.

[Tim Hall]

Larissa, I'm not a cider expert, but between wine, mead and beer experience here's what I can tell you.

1) Racking off any pomace or lees (yeast) is often either a matter of style or fermenting philosophy. If you want a bright (sparkling clear) with as clean a flavor as possible, you'll want to rack at some point. If you're not concerned about these things and aren't afraid to have the full yeast character, you can leave it until the ferment is complete.

But don't rack too soon. You'll stall your fermentation if you do. For beer, 2-3 weeks is generally accepted as a good time to rack. For mead, which ferments much slower, you might wait a month or more. I suspect cider is closer in it's fermentation kinetics to beer.

2) I don't know what's typical for cider in terms of sugar and potential alcohol. But 14% is pretty high. If you can actually get close to that (or even in the ballpark of say 10%) you'll have something you could bottle and store away for aging for quite some time. I'd be sure you read the hydrometer correctly...if you had any bubbles in the must from the pressing, this could cause the hydrometer to read high.

3) I'm not sure if your 14% was maybe a typo(?) 14% potential alcohol is relatively high for any ferment. That's not a small amount of alcohol by any means. Anything close to this will likely produce a fairly stable ferment that will likely benefit from at least a little aging.

3B) The trick to getting a ferment that will keep in bottles for a while is preventing too much oxygen from getting to it once the primary fermentation is well underway.

For the first few days the ferment wants oxygen. But once the really vigorous bubbling is going well, you'll want to put an airlock on it.

4) Yes, you can drink it before it reaches 'terminal gravity' (all sugar used by the yeast). It will have a much more yeasty character at this point than if you let it sit and settle out. And you will be drinking a good dose of live yeasts. But this is in fact how traditional ferments were (and some still are) most often consumed. Most people fermenting things in their farm house, once upon a time, didn't have access to sound bottling technology, and so would drink ferments before they could start turning to vinegar.

[Tim Hall]

Larissa, here's a little added insight on racking.

I looked at some homebrewing forums for recommendations. It seems cider brewers are pretty evenly split as to whether or not to rack. If you decide to rack, 3-4 weeks is probably a good time.

As I said above, racking will give you a clearer, cleaner-tasting ferment. Leaving the cider on the lees will give it strong character from the yeast. Most people new to fermentation don't realize just how much the yeast can affect flavor and aroma.

If you're a beer drinker here's an analogy: Light lager beer is exceptionally clear and almost devoid of yeast character - it's brewed to suppress yeast character. Bold Belgian ales (dubbel, tripel, etc.) generally have strong yeast character - they are brewed with the intent to express the yeast.

If you prefer lager, you might want to rack. If you prefer Belgian, you might leave it.

[Larissa]

HI Tim,

Thanks for the detailed response!

About the 14% alcohol. Not a typo. I was referring to the other batch that I added that I followed a recipe for, and which had added sugar. Sorry for the confusion. That said, I my guess that the "au naturale" batch will probably only produce alcohol somewhere around 5% from the natural sugars.

That said, your response has spawned a few more questions regarding oxygen.

The cider has been in a large, clear, pickle jar now for almost a week. It's had an airlock in the lid since day one. But, there is also considerable air space in the jar. I have also been taking the lid off once a day to stir and then immediately replacing it. So, it's had a fair amount of oxygen. It's still foaming pretty good so should I put it into a smaller carboy with only a few inches below the airlock?

[Tim Hall]

Ok, 5% sounds right for cider...I kept imagining some REALLY sweet apples you had there!

At this point I think you have plenty of aeration, and would advise not opening the container again for this purpose...you're effectively defeating the purpose of the airlock at this point.

I'd also be inclined to go ahead and let the ferment play out for at least another week before racking (if you decide to do so). Here's the thing: if you rack off the ferment early, you'll be leaving behind a lot of active yeast that may be needed to gobble up the sugar. You need to let this yeast do it's work for a certain amount of time.

Because you've been stirring the ferment for this long, it's very likely you have some Lactobacillus working in there, and maybe some Acetobacter too. You might consider just letting this ferment play out to a reasonable degree of completeion, and drink it 'fresh' rather than racking or bottling. I suspect if you let this particular ferment go for too long you're going to end up with a strong sour tang, and maybe even vinegar.

My personal approach is this: Once I see obvious signs of fermentation, I stop stirring/aerating, and place a loose cover (for air exchange) over the ferment for 2-3 days (3 days max). After that it gets an airlock, and isn't opened again except to rack or test gravity.

If you simply leave the airlock in place now, most of the oxygen in your head space is going to be displaced with CO2. Having less head space is good insurance, if you plan to let the ferment sit and do it's thing for several weeks or months. But I'm not sure you want to let this one go that far. And whatever you, don't rack it yet...at the very least the obvious signs of fermentation should stop before you go to rack.

[Larissa]

Okay!

Since I have the other batch that will essentially be "apple wine, I will probably drink the "au naturale" soon. I like knowing that it's similar to cider that homesteaders used to drink.

Thanks again for your help.

[PlayItFast]

Okay, I'm also new to this site. I'm not sure how to create my own post...

I've made hard cider before, a number of times. I currently don't have the book available to me, and I'm going to try this a different way than before...

I'm very low on resources for the time being. Could use some insight.

Q.) Does brewing in a plastic jug, contaminate the ferment? Or is it fine?

Q.) Alternatives for an airlock, and how it works?

[Tim Hall]

Q.) Does brewing in a plastic jug, contaminate the ferment? Or is it fine?

As long as it's food grade plastic it's ok, although I have some personal qualms with plastic in general.

Q.) Alternatives for an airlock, and how it works?

Balloon. Condom. Drilled cork with tube inserted...tube descends into a cup of water.

Balloons and condoms are not as reliable as a proper airlock though. They may have to be 'burped' periodically or else they'll fly off the fermenter.