First cider attempt

[zaraya]

Hello every one!
Im new to the fermentation world but im very enthusiastic about it.
Im doing my first attempt/experiment. I have two jars of appple juice(fresh squeezed) sitting covered with a cloth near the window for about a week now.I wanted to ask your opinion about it since this is my first attempt ever :)

batch #1
http://img291.imageshack.us/i/img2842y.jpg/

batch #2

http://img153.imageshack.us/i/img2843ft.jpg/

Do you think it's all gone terribly wrong? Or is there still hope ? :)

Thanks

[Fubar]

You need to throw those out. That is mold on them. Your first major problem was covering them with a cloth near a window. You need to use airlocks because they will prevent wild yeasts and mold spores from entering your batch. Covering with a cloth will not work for wine/cider ferments. You should also pasteurize your batch or add sulfites before pitching your yeast. Also, ferments should be out of the light and allowed to ferment in a warm dark place (65-75 degrees). Did you even use yeast or are you depending on a spontaneous ferment via wild yeasts? You should pitch a good yeast as a beginner. I recommend Lalvin D47 or Wyeast 4766 Cider.

[zaraya]

Actually i was trying to make a wild ferment. Because of that i put it "in the open". Will it be dangerous if i'll try to drink it after taking the top layer( with the mold)off?

[Tim Hall]

You need to throw those out...

Not too hasty...wild (spontaneous) fermentation works well with cider, if you help it along a little. Fubar, I know you have a brewer's ethic with regard to these things, and I appreciate that, but there are other ways.

Zaraya, you definitely have mold growing on the surface, as Fubar points out, and it appears you may also have some bacteria growing in there too (hard to determine though).

I know some will nay-say here, but personally I'd spoon off the mold and give 'er just a little sip to see what you got. I've done this many times...never been ill from it. If your cider tastes really tangy you've got some type of bacteria that's taken it over, and it won't turn into a proper alcoholic beverage. In which case, you can wait to see if turns to good cider vinegar for other uses, or toss it.

Two tricks to getting good spontaneous cider:
A) Use unwaxed, uncoated, ORGANIC apple peels to inoculate your cider. The yeast that wants turn the apple into booze is already resident on the skin waiting to do its thing. If you trust the source of your apples, don't bother washing them - you'll just be rinsing off wild yeast. Peel some skin off the apple and drop it in your ferment, if it's not already ground up with the pomace.

B) Aerate like crazy! Get as much oxygen into the ferment as you can in the beginning. Follow Sandor's advice by stirring it often for the first few days, at least 2-3.

[Tim Hall]

A few more tricks, not necessary, but sometimes helpful.

A) Use a container with a very loosely sealed lid. This will allow some oxygen exchange, but help mitigate mold spores from falling in your brew. MOLD IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. Yes it may alter the flavor and aroma, sometimes not pleasingly, but you can just skim it off, and be on your way.

B) Once the ferment is underway, put it under an airlock just as Fubar suggests. But wait until it starts bubbling. You need lots of oxygen exchange in the beginning. If you plan to age or clarify your cider, this becomes more of a necessity. Any wine or brew left open to oxygen will eventually turn to vinegar.

C) Make starters. In smaller containers, make at least two test starts using peels from at least two different apples. Wait to see which one takes off the most vigorously, or smells the yummiest, or both. Pour that starter into your main batch.

D) Designate alcohol and food containers, and avoid using containers that had sauerkraut or other lacto ferments in them for making wine, cider or beer. A small amount of lacto fermentation may not be a detriment to your cider, but it can overwhelm a beverage if it gets a head start over the yeast.

E) When all else fails, and your spontaneous cider isn't taking off, go back to post #2 and read Fubar's comments. D47 yeast will often save your ferment, but it's not entirely wild at that point.

[zaraya]

Thank you very much for the help.I really appreciate it!I'll try the suggestions and see what happens.

[Fubar]

My mistake. I didn't realize you were going for a wild ferment. Mold won't hurt you, but it may add off-flavors to your cider. I guess I'm more of a perfectionist when it comes to sanitation and such. As Tim says, a starter would be the best way to inoculate your batch. I suggest at least a 48 hour starter. I use a stir plate, but if you don't have that, just make sure to stir it when you can. Get it going vigorously. Then add it to your must. If for some reason you can't get it going, you can always try Wyeast's brettanomyces lambicus or brettanomyces bruxellensis. These are both wild yeasts from Belgium. Maybe something to think about in the future. Good luck!

[lightningstrucktree]

i made some hard cider a month or so ago and before the yeast arrived i got some mold spots, i stirred and shook it vigorously and let sit longer, then the yeast came, and once the yeast is there the mold has very little chance, as yeast is the biggest micro bully in the playground

remember to save the wild yeast for your next ferment, this cuts the waiting time out and turns the week and a half process down to about three or four days, just save the yeast with a little bit of the brew (i add a pinch or two more sugar to keep it alive) refredgerate, to slow fermentation and then just dump it in to the fresh apple cider to kickstart the fermentation

good luck, and be brave! take tiny taste samples they wont kill you and your senses will tell you if it's good to drink or not, trust your alchemic instincts